dragonyphoenix (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
dragonyphoenix) wrote2013-10-15 11:45 am
dragonyphoenix) wrote2013-10-15 11:45 am
Spike, Faith, denial, and aggression
I read a comment that compared Spike and Faith and added that Spike wanted, for Buffy, to “make her feel” in SR. I'm finding an interesting difference between Spike and Faith. Her violence and aggression, especially when turned against innocents, comes from her trying not to feel, trying to avoid her own internal pain through denial and acting out. Spike is aggressive, at least in the beginning, because he's a vampire and that's what vamps do. He feels his pain and does not try to avoid it, but there is some denial going on. In Lover's Walk (that's the one where he kidnaps Willow and Xander, right?), he is in denial – he thinks he can get Dru back – and he is hurting others because of that denial but only because he thinks Willow can help him get Dru back. On the other hand, he is feeling that pain; he's not denying his pain.
I don't know what that says about the characters, if anything, just me musing as I have my breakfast.
I don't know what that says about the characters, if anything, just me musing as I have my breakfast.
Re: Late comment is late
I've also heard that he was so freaked out by the love scene he directed (flashbacks for Innocence) that he never directed another one in the series after that. Like I said in the reply I just sent you - he's got some very strange, very victorian sensibilities when it comes to (female) sexuality. Buffy ending the series as a "spiritual virgin", cleansed via flamey handfasting ('cause sex is just icky or something - and it gets you killed. Ask Tara! *end sarcasm*) I'm exaggerating for effect but not by much. Only someone who is uncomfortable with the female body and sexuality could think that the space fuck was funny. That attitude is already in the series despite Joss' belief in his own feminism.
And I have no idea who was behind the camera in the Bronze scene; it could be that it was a second-unit direct or that day? I also keep in mind that commentaries are after the fact - often long after the fact.
But then can we explain Spike and Angelus that way? Joss as a bad boy?
Oh we could go on all day about the similarities characters share!
I think maybe Angel and Spike were meant to be the bad boys in relation to the Joss avatar Xander, but both became more interesting or rather Joss, David, Marti etc became more interested in Angel and Spike than they'd intended.
Is that Buffybot story mabus101's that I mentioned to you? Because it sounds similar - and in terms of what the Buffybot represents re: assembly line, those are my comments. I should give credit to
I thought it was more on the icky side.
As is The Hyena, Xander admitting that he remembers almost raping Buffy while under the spell and laughing about it with Giles; Bewitched, Bothered and bewildered (Buffy thanks him for not talking advantage of her - while she was affected by a spell he accidentally put on her and all the women of SD); Him (although I do find that ep funny despite the wonkiness so sue me); and on and on. Someone did a meta a few years back of all the instances of violation and wonky consent (dub-con,rape played for laughs or handwaved away) during the series, which I've lost the link to, and it was pretty sobering.
But Donald Sutherland *squee!!!*
Joss hated him and I've heard he's not the only person to dislike Sutherland but he's one of my favorite actors. His performance in Ordinary People was amazing because it's so quiet, without any of the fireworks that are being pitched around him by the other characters. Whenever he's in a movie he's often my favorite element - including the video of Kate bush's "cloudbusting":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K69hEnLpSY8
and YES to a glimpse of Ripper! ;)
Re: Late comment is late
Sex gets you killed: okay I don't recall if she was around or not but wouldn't killing Anya be a better example of that, given how outspoken she is? Also, Tara is the character, outside of the core four, who's death would most upset viewers. Although maybe Dawn's death would have been just as upsetting. But Tara's death also sends Willow down that evil spiral, which we knew he wanted to take her on.
I don't know what the space fuck means. And I'm not trying to dis your hypothesis, I just don't see it.
I read Byron in an English class and Angel is a Byronic hero, to the T. I always though Xander represented Joss, with his inability to get the girl and all.
I believe Spike was meant to be a throwaway character but I thought Angel was always meant to be a main character? Or do you mean "interested in" as in giving more interesting plot points to?
Oops and can't finish this now. Gotta run. ttfn - ta ta for now.
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