Are you a good witch or a bad witch?

[dragonyphoenix]

So my aunt posted this with the Wiccan Rede below it. I don’t know what to think of it so I’m sharing it here. Any thoughts?

I'm not fond of some of the posts someone has been posting, making fun of Christmas practices and/or Christians (but really showing her arrogance and that she believes she's more intelligent than the rest of us), but I bit my tongue until now. I don't want to be mean, I want her to THINK about how her posts must affect her family, because if she gave it any thought at all she wouldn't have posted most of it. We're all entitled to our own beliefs, and no one should be making fun of another's beliefs.

“Ever mind the Rule of Three
Three Times what thou givest returns to thee
This lesson well, thou must learn
Thee only gets what thou dost earn!”

Since I’m the only non-Christian in the family, this is directed at me although she doesn’t name me directly.

So, what have I posted this month?
44 non-holiday
25 holiday related but I can’t see how they’d be offensive (although possibly I’m wrong. Maybe she found the cthulhu tree offensive)
28 holiday songs
11 solstice / yule
1 Kwanzaa

Out of 128 posts, I’m guessing these 9 are offensive (except for the one she did comment on). What might she see as offensive (I’m guessing since she didn’t specify) and why I posted them:

1. Song “The Christians and the Pagans”. Yes, she’s right. This song does (lightly) bash Christians and I’m not thrilled with it for that, but I do find the family getting along despite their differences to be moving. Also I have friends who I know love the song.


2. An image of Santa and snowman lawn ornaments behind a wire fence which talks about the war on Christmas and internment camps. I do not see this as a Christian vs. Pagan image. Some people think there’s a “war on Christmas”. Because I completely disagree, I think the image is funny.


3. Santa and a demon (krampus) sitting close together and the words “Sometimes I fight my demons; sometimes we snuggle.” Krampus is traditional at Christmas in Europe. What I was thinking as I posted it was Pema Chodron talking about sharing a cookie (or cake) with your demons.


4. Accurate nativity play depicting real birth issues. Aunt Alice did comment on this that she found it offensive. It was late. I don’t recall why I posted it.


5. Linus (from the Peanuts) talking on the Pagan origins of the holiday. Okay, I guess I can see this one. I posted it because I have friends who’d enjoy it.


6. Comparing St. Nicholas to a Klingon (and they do look a lot alike). It’s geeky. I liked it.


7. Witches caroling and a family being afraid of them. The depiction of the witches and dragon is cute.


8. There was a fourth wiseman who was turned away for bringing fruitcake. Funny.


9. “We worship nature. Don’t laugh, we can prove it exists.” This was the furthest back. I didn’t even recall it until I went through my December posts. But it does seem sort of true to me. If that’s me thinking I’m more intelligent, then mea culpa.

Comments

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You're a non-Christian? I wouldn't have guessed it automatically from your posts. In fact I wouldn't have guessed at all. mostly because I haven't been paying close attention and don't remember you saying anything outright.

But you've posted more Christmas songs than just about anyone, and if you mix up Christan and pagan a bit who doesn't nowadays? Heck I'm atheist (raised catholic) and celebrate the season, "tis the season" and all that jazz.

I am confused though - you say you're the only non-Christian in the family, but your aunt is posting at a Wiccan site? Huh?

I assume that the relationship between you and your aunt is such that you can't just ask her outright (or I should say, is such that your aunt would rather post criticisms about family members online than talking to them?)

Which renders the invocation of The Rule of Three (which I know from my Wiccan period in college) a tad hypocritical. Talking about someone behind their back? RIGHT.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

I'm more agnostic than anything nowadays but have been Pagan. I post all the Christmas songs because I adore Christmas tchotchke.

Oh, she posted this to Facebook, but she did include an image of the Wiccan Rede in her post.

I am planning on responding. I just wanted a wider viewpoint of the situation first. I sort of see her point. I have a cousin, Jen, who is much more conservative than I'd thought and I did freak out over a couple of her posts. It wasn't that it was conservative per se. It was the discordance between my thinking she was liberal and seeing her conservative posts. So basically I was upset because Jen didn't fit the category I'd put her in, which, granted is a stupid thing to get upset about.

I think Aunt Alice is making assumptions about why I posted what I did and that her assumptions are wrong. I hope she's wrong anyway! I may have unconsciously thought myself superior when I was younger, but I hopefully don't do that now.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

You? Think yourself superior? HUH???

If anything, you seem to have the opposite tendency. Anyone who types that doesn't know you very well.

someone who "thinks themselves superior" wouldn't type "So basically I was upset because Jen didn't fit the category I'd put her in, which, granted is a stupid thing to get upset about. " because they wouldn't entain the notion that they were wrong in the first place. or they'd blame their mistakes on other people.



I'm still a little confused by the whole situation, but it sounds like there is a good bit of discord in your family?

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

You? Think yourself superior? HUH??? Thank you so much for that. I'm feeling so much better now.

No, we don't know each other very well. Other than two summers back, I haven't seen her in decades. There's lots of anger and not seeing each other on both sides of my family ... going back for generations based on stories I've heard.

Actually my Dad and I had that not talking thing happening some years back. My therapist pointed out that she thought I did want to be in contact with my Dad, which is true. So he and I are working on getting along to the point where it just feels like we're getting along rather than working on it. Mostly.

But aunt Alice seems to prefer my sister's company, which would be one of the reasons she's living in Michigan near my sister, and I'm okay with that. I don't know if Alice dumps these judgement attacks on Jackie but it seems unlikely because Jackie has no problem saying she wants people out of her life. If there was a rift between me and Alice (as in we weren't speaking), I don't know that I'd care enough to try and fix it.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I think what this demonstrates is that (sadly) you are better off without these folks, who sound awfully petty to me.

Try not to give them more headspace than they deserve, hon. And re: your aunt's rant, there's a reason it's called "two cents".

Have a very merry holiday whatever you celebrate, or at least a peaceful one!

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thank you. My roommie - Jewish by birth; Pagan by choice - and are are having a holiday meal tomorrow. In the evening she's going to a dance studio she hangs at and I'll be opening presents (out-of-town, mailed gifts) and watching Hogwarts.

I hope your holiday is lovely too.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

Low-key is definitely my speed lately; I think it's great that people are making their own traditions. (Some of our family get togethers were - not fun - back in the day.)

My sweetie and I will be spending the weekend together with no concrete plans except exchange little "stocking gift" (things that fit into christmas stockings we bought at goodwill after the 2013 fire. We never bothered to replace the lights, the ornaments and other stuff that got destroyed.

I kind of miss the Christmas lights though. Maybe I'll get a string by next Christmas.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

For the past I don't know how many years I've been thinking I'll put up lights next year. ;-)

[velvetwhip.livejournal.com]

Oh for pity's sake! I'm someone who believes in God and has more atheist friends than you can shake a stick at, not all of whom are tactful. I survive. People need to learn not to go looking to take offense. If I don't like a post, I skip it. Problem solved. It would be one thing if you were going to THEIR spaces and making pointed, personally-directed comments, but since that's not the case... wtf??? And no, you're not the superior-acting one here. Oy.


Gabrielle

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thank you. I know she says she's not posting that to be mean but she could have contacted me privately. Instead she chose to post this on Facebook where her friends will support her position.

I'm trying to look at it like a time when I was upset by something my cousin had posted and I, unthinkingly, responded with something that upset my cousin.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

I know she says she's not posting that to be mean but she could have contacted me privately.

And really that's the crux of the matter. She could have even complained to a friend privately but to broadcast it like that? She meant for you to see it but didn't have the stones to say anything directly (or simply grow the hell up and learn to deal.)

And what about all the other lovely videos you posted? You've been a veritable font of cool holiday spirit this past month, how does all of that not count?

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

I wish I understood. It does follow a family pattern. My aunt sent me a gift and a large check for Christmas. My mother used to be quite generous with gifts but then she'd treat me like crap. I remember mentioning Mom's pattern to my sister and her responding with "Thank you!" because she'd seen the pattern as well and appreciated the validation.

So, I keep telling myself it's not about me.

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

So, I keep telling myself it's not about me.

That's exactly what you need to remember sweetie - and most folks never get to that basic realization.

I'm sure you're familiar with the term "crazymaking" from your therapy or your reading. And that's how people like this operate. It's like a see-saw of positive/negative behavior.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

No, I hadn't actually heard of crazymaking before. Bleah. I'm really sick of dealing with dysfunctional people. *sigh*

I think I prefer the decades where aunt Alice was ignoring me!

[red-satin-doll.livejournal.com]

The "Term" crazy making has been around at least since the 1970's. Here's a fairly good article on the types of abuse involved in this pattern.
http://verbalabusejournals.com/about-abuse/crazymaking/

I think I prefer the decades where aunt Alice was ignoring me!

It's obvious that you're making changes, going to therapy, identifying toxic patterns and that is incredibly threatening to the people who are still locked into their dysfunctions.

I think I mentioned Dr Harriet Lehrner's book "The Dance of Anger" to you; she talks about these patterns in her books, and the "change back!" moves that family members attempt to keep you down, to maintain the familiar status quo and prevent others from making changes. Because if one person makes changes, it implies the "system" isn't working and it causes others to have to re-evaluate their own lives or they double down on the toxic patterns.

Fun, fun, fun. Right?

I fully support the work you are doing to heal yourself and grow. I think that is absolutely awesome.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

They interpret your actions in a way that paints you in the worst possible light. Oh yeah, Aunt Alice definitely does this one. For example, my holiday posts are attacks on Christians and not my happily sharing with my Pagan friends. She will authoritatively say "this is what Judy means by this" as if she has a link into my thoughts!

Withdrawing runs rampant in my family. My Mom never got to see her grandkids because Jackie wouldn't have anything to do with her. Jackie won't speak with Dad now that Mom's passed away; apparently she has to have someone to be angry at. Aunt Alice also wouldn't interact with Mom. My mother didn't want to see her brother Art. I live really far from them all. Big pattern in my family!

I've decided I want to minimize contact with Alice. It's not as if we see / talk often anyway. She doesn't matter enough for me to try and change her behavior. I'm sort of wondering if I'm just going into the family pattern of withdrawing, but I don't think so. I called Dad on his behavior and we're getting along better now, but he's important to me. I want to keep in contact with him.

I fully support the work you are doing to heal yourself and grow. I think that is absolutely awesome. Thank you. I do think the therapy and meditation are making a difference!

[double_dutchess]

I just watched the Christians and Pagans vid and (being neither a Christian nor a Pagan) it came across to me as pleading for harmony between the faiths more than anything, so I don't really see how that one would be offensive.

Your aunt's post doesn't seem to set a very good example of "treat others how you would like to be treated". I'm sorry to hear the relations in your family are so strained.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

I think there's a few things that could be read as digs against Christianity: the red dye number three, only pumpkin pies are burning. And I'm guessing that she found this song offensive although it was shortly after this song's posting that she made her own post against me.

I'm tempted to post "let him without sin throw the first stone" in my response but I'm trying to take the high-ground so I won't.

Thanks. We do have lots of people who refuse to talk to each other in my family. I think that's why I live so far away.

[double_dutchess]

I think there's a few things that could be read as digs against Christianity: the red dye number three, only pumpkin pies are burning.

You have a point there. The red dye one does not seem terribly offensive though (unless I just don't understand it) and the one about the burning is pure historical fact -- though I can understand how it would be rather unpleasant to be reminded of.

It's definitely better to take the high ground and prevent things from escalating. But I can completely understand the temptation.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I've already toned down my response once and I'll wait until tomorrow so I can check it again first.

As much as I want to comment on her saying "I don't want to be mean" AND "but really showing her arrogance and that she believes she's more intelligent than the rest of us" in the same post, I think I'll leave that alone and try to come off as the reasonable one.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

I suppose saying, "I don't think I'm more intelligent than any other person until that person proves it to me" would be wrong, huh?

Grumble grumble holiday spirit. ;)

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

I don't want to completely sound like Sheldon Cooper. ;-)

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

I googled it -- red dye #3 is suspected of causing thyroid cancer.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Even more of a dig now that I know that.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think it's like, "ha ha you're getting cancer," more like religion can encourage us to be afraid of other people's beliefs that don't harm us at all rather than things that might actually harm us?

Or maybe that the "traditions" we follow might be more recent than we think about.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't think it meant "ha ha cancer", but that they using candycanes with ingredients linked to cancer does seem like a dig.

I'm all for recent traditions! I just came across that solstice candles on this year and it was quite moving for me. ;-)

[double_dutchess]

red dye #3 is suspected of causing thyroid cancer

Thanks for the info. That does sound really nasty.

[thisficklemob.livejournal.com]

Being an atheist, I'm not the one to ask if those are offensive to Christians. I will say that a) I have met people who find the acknowledgement of others' beliefs or lack thereof offensive. Like, it somehow pains them that I insist on my own existence. Reasoning usually leads to insane troll logic. Nothing to be done.

And b) some people take religion so super seriously that any light-heartedness or show of irreverence is taken as insult. You may have run afoul of this.

All that said, most Christians I know aren't (thank dog) prone to either of the above, so I doubt you've offended them all?

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thanks. No one else has complained. I've seen her be upset about one thing and go off about something completely different in the past.

[the-emu.livejournal.com]

Everyone here is being so kind and generous.

I have zero tolerance for people who think that other people have no right to notice or enjoy or comment on the foibles of their religion, just because that person wants to live in an actively thought-free bubble.

Yes, everyone's entitled to their own beliefs, but no, everyone is not entitled to turn other people's brains off.

If she's trying to make you feel bad for not living your life tiptoeing around her sacred cows, she's a deeply selfish and entitled person, and you should roll your eyes and ignore her the same way one ignores grandma's racist tirades. ('Cos it's pointless trying to teach manners to elder members of one's family.)

*And* if she's being offended by your videos, it's because she's actively choosing to watch them. I don't have time to watch videos, so I haven't clicked on them, so I have no idea what the content of them is.

Also, that passive aggressive 'I'm talking about someone here, but I won't say who it is, so everyone reading this can scour their memories to see if they've wronged me' shit is intolerable from anyone over the age of thirteen.

You are 100% fine, dragonyphoenix, and I'm sorry she's made you feel awkward.


But but but, I wanted to throw this out there as a possibility:
When she says 'how her posts must affect her family', are you sure she's talking about your family and hence you? Might she be talking about someone *else* making posts, which might upset *her* family, with whom your aunt empathises? That would still tick me off for the rest of these reasons, but at least then it wouldn't be a passive aggressive attack on you.

8^-

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

I actually did skip a Facebook share because I thought it might upset her, but I've also deliberately posted stuff I figured might bother her. Happily a lot of my anger dropped away last night so I can get back to being myself and not be driven by someone else's anger.

Yeah, I have a number of friends who post pictures I don't like. Facebook allows me to hide them so I don't have to see them again.

Since she had commented on a vid I'd shared, I do believe she's speaking about me. She definitely gets along better with my sister than with me. I think they're closer in personality. I'm more like my Dad who does have a superiority thing going. I think my aunt it working with old data. She lived with us when I was in high-school but we've hardly seen each other in decades.

I also think she's playing out a family dysfunction. She sent me a generous check for Christmas. My mother used to do the same thing: buy me bunch of gifts and then treat me like crap. I don't know what that's about but it's not about me.

[the-emu.livejournal.com]

Oh, good. I was worried that my harshness on your relative might be out of line.

As I've aged, I've definitely found it easier and more effective to respond to this kind of thing with a shrug and a reminder to myself that they're old and crazy, and can't be fixed.

8^-

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

they're old and crazy, and can't be fixed. Yeah, we did that with my Grandpa. One time he said "he's nice for a black man" and we all just glanced at each other and let it slide.

[snogged.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear that things with your aunt are strained, but it's sounds like it's her issues and not yours.

Facebook is a free social media platform. People can and do post whatever they want. Sometimes people like it, sometimes they don't. Whatever. Move on.

I was born a Christian and chose to be Pagan/Agnostic. I am thankful that I was raised in a church that did not believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I was raised in a church where people were kind and generous to others regardless of their religion or their culture. I'm always baffled by folks who aren't interested in doing the same. The golden commandment is to love thy neighbor as thyself.

[dragonyphoenix.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I do feel as if it's her issues but if I had issues it's likely I'd be blind to them. *sigh*

And if I see something I don't like on Facebook, I hide the post so it won't come up again. I'm not sure why she couldn't do the same thing.

The older I get the more I see society as a web and that we get along best by being kind to each other.

I don't think Alice means to be unkind. Before I had therapy, I was controlled by my emotions. The kind of stuff she's directing at me looks like journals I had written. It's just that I didn't share that rage the way she is.