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dragonyphoenix“I don't want to be mean, but …”
Stop right there. You’re about to be mean. If you want to say whatever’s coming after the word “but” then lose “I don’t want to be mean.” You’re being mean. Own it.
If you really don’t want to be mean, then “I don’t want to be mean so I’ll stop now.”
Stop right there. You’re about to be mean. If you want to say whatever’s coming after the word “but” then lose “I don’t want to be mean.” You’re being mean. Own it.
If you really don’t want to be mean, then “I don’t want to be mean so I’ll stop now.”
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Date: 2016-06-21 04:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-21 04:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-21 04:48 am (UTC)What about
"I am about to say something that I know will be hurtful but I can't figure out a better way to say it and I think it is important enough to say even if it hurts your feelings" ? Is that acceptable or not, in your opinion?
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Date: 2016-06-21 01:12 pm (UTC)Also something to think about, not sure about other people but for me "I’ll stop now" is the worst. Because one will always come up with terrible meaningful things left unsaid, even if the original meaning was mild at best. "I want to say something but I won't" is ominous.
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Date: 2016-06-21 06:59 pm (UTC)...whereas "hurtful" implies "I recognize the probability of pain here" and is STILL a great big flashing neon sign for caution, examine one's motives and prioritizes, but it isn't *necessarily* prioritizing one's own petty goals over another's well-being, since sometimes help can be painful...
But maybe I am completely on the wrong foot here. This certainly isn't what the original post from dragonyphoenix seemed to be saying to me; I interpreted that as being more about the common tendency, which I certainly share, to prioritize just about EVERYTHING over genuine consideration for *someone else's* emotional and mental well-being.
Sometimes reflexively looking for the gray area gets me in trouble. Some things should be allowed to stand. Like "stop hurting me."
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:12 am (UTC)Your distinction between mean and hurtful is excellent. It's like the difference between criticism and constructive criticism. One's trying to knock a person down; the other to explain something they might not be seeing.
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:57 am (UTC)On boundaries: With family, personally, I am good at SEEING self vs. others, but not so good at FUNCTIONING by myself, which means I will sometimes make a clear, respectful, self-aware request ... for something I shouldn't be bloody asking for. Different mess than not realize that other people's crap is Not My Crap, which is dismayingly common, but still a mess.
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:08 am (UTC)She certainly did have a legitimate complaint. But ... she said she didn't want to be mean and then said I'm arrogant and that I think I'm better than everyone else. It was that she went there, that's what really upset me. Of course as my other post indicates, she was following a dysfunctional pattern that meant she had to go there. My family's not good at setting boundaries. We expect the other person to know our boundaries and get more and more pissed off that they don't until we explode.
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:02 am (UTC)Now that I’ve had time to muse on some reactions to this post, I realize it’s about me expressing my superiority over my sister by responding to a rant my aunt made agains me last December. Yes, my headspace is that convoluted.
Monday was massive insight day. I don’t believe I’ve ever had so many insights in a row. They mostly related to family dysfunctions, specifically relating to boundaries. I didn’t learn to set boundaries until about four years ago. My therapist explained them to me. About two years back, I set boundaries with my Dad and we are getting along much better now. One of the insights from yesterday was that not only has he changed his behavior but I’ve also changed. Behaviors of his that would have driven me nuts a few years back barely even register now. I hadn’t realized until yesterday that healing our relationship would require both of us to change.
Back to my sister and my aunt. I have Tiggerish energy. I get excited about things, sort of bounce in disruptively to share them, making a mess as I go. On top of that, things I get quite excited about - Paganism, fire circles - are subjects that, well, can freak my sister and my aunt out. Before therapy, talking with Dad was like walking on eggshells. I was just waiting for him to piss me off because he always did. Another of Monday’s insights was that my sister felt that way about me. Based on ways that she’s reserved around me, I think she’s always expecting I’ll do/say something out of the blue that’ll upset her. (Note: my sister and aunt are like two peas in a pod personality-wise; most anything I say about one, in this context, applies to the other.)
Okay, so that pattern I referred to above, not setting boundaries and then blowing up at a person because you expect them to magically know your boundaries? That’s what happened with the rant my aunt made against me at Christmas. She was upset with some posts I made to Facebook but to this day I don’t know, for the most part, which posts she was referring to. She was never clear about the boundaries. The “I don’t want to be mean, but …” line also comes from that rant.
Hence the feeling of superiority. I was saying that I’m above engaging in that dysfunctional behavior now but they aren’t. And that would sound a lot better if I hadn’t been feeling smugly superior as I said it!
So, you are exactly right. She doesn’t know a better way to say it, just like I didn’t know a better way to say it before 2 1/2 years of therapy. I can see why I got so upset at the time. She knows exactly how to hurt me, but this far after the event I should have seen that I’d been in that same place not all that long ago.
And I still don’t know how to heal my relationships with my sister and my aunt so where do I get off thinking I”m better than they are?
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Date: 2016-06-22 04:07 am (UTC)It is okay to be satisfied/pleased with yourself and with your own marked progress and growth as a person. That isn't necessarily the same as smugness or grandiosity. Having a sense of accomplishment, even with inside-the-head stuff, is useful because it is both motivating and restful. Being aware that you have drawn a line and now adhere to a certain standard that may have been difficult to reach is worth a bit of celebration, although it needn't be expressed in comparison to others. Basically, it's okay to feel good about something about yourself even if other things are not-good.
On a slightly different but related note...
I give myself brownie points for Not Saying The Bad Things - or the perfectly reasonable things, but too loud, too fast, too many in a row, and requiring too much work from my interlocutor. As in I have an actual mental score card for each day, and will add to it or even ask someone close to me "Can I have a brownie point?" for when I manage to do good things or just overcome my tendency to fly off the handle. Which can sometimes edge into, "I wanna say but I'm not gonna say..." territory, so I am trying to be increasingly cautious with it.
Also, I washed some dishes tonight, and dang it, I am proud of that.
Finally, I am very pleased that you are gaining something from this conversation! I find your posts and comments to be fascinating.
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Date: 2016-06-22 02:01 pm (UTC)The brownie points is a great idea. It's so easy for us - people I mean - to focus on the negative. Actively looking for the positive is a great way to counter that.
Finally, I am very pleased that you are gaining something from this conversation! I find your posts and comments to be fascinating. Thank you. Me too with yours. There aren't many people in my life who get me thinking.
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Date: 2016-06-22 05:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-22 12:43 pm (UTC)I'm impressed with how much you can do the self insight thing. So many people cannot and it seems you're... easy with it, rather than finding it a painful thing. That's so great.
Much of what you say here I empathise with. Setting boundaries with family, for example. Being excited and high-spirited about certain topics which my family Do Not Want in quite an emphatic way. I find myself nodding along much of this.
It's okay to feel "better". It's okay to feel "oh thank the gods I'm not in that place anymore, it was a horrible place". (it's okay, though not helpful, to get dragged into the same old arguments; setting boundaries doesn't mean you can always stick to them, especially around intense family time. Sometimes you can't. "I'm not having arguments with you" is a very difficult boundary to maintain.)(frexample, an interaction I had with my sister wherein I was trying to maintain "if I can't say this nicely I won't", but then exploded because you know what, fuck that shit and I'm not gonna sit in silence over that kind of bull. So that didn't end that well, which is evident by the fact I remember it. But since then I have not had one argument with her about, you know, basic human rights and decent politics, so go me?)
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Date: 2016-06-22 01:55 pm (UTC)It's okay to feel "better". Thank you for this paragraph. I'm the perfectionist child who thinks "If I'm not being completely saintly, if I have even one mean thought in my head, I must be failing!" *shakes head*
I'm big with the avoidance. That's another family pattern. My aunt and I unfriended each other after I reacted to the Facebook rant against me. Something about me just bugs her. Also, when she's upset about anything or anyone, I'm the person she uses as a scapegoat. I sort of feel like I'm falling into another family pattern (avoidance) with this but we've never been close and I don't need the verbal abuse bombs appearing out of nowhere.
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:09 pm (UTC)(patterns: I have one sister who explodes at everything, and one who avoids so bad I just recently realised she's actually terrified to any kind of emotion, her own or other people's. I'm closer to the explosive one, attitude-wise, because I do prefer things out in the open rather than silent festering, but finding a golden path in between isn't easy)
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:36 pm (UTC)I'm more of an avoider, but not for any conscious reason. It's just the pattern I fall most easily into. There's a good reason my closest relative is 5 1/2 hours away!
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Date: 2016-06-22 03:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-22 06:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-06-22 06:00 pm (UTC)